John McCain rejects Jimmy Carter jibe that he is 'milking' Vietnam service: A response

McCain was a vietnamese collaborator and he's done everything he can to prevent anyone from looking at his sealed records.

So McCain was in a POW camp. That sucks for him. I might care if I hadn't heard it every twenty minutes since he announced his candidacy. He's exploiting it, plain and simple, which is totally disrespectful to other POWs/MIAs without daddy's money and connections to set them up nice.

To call Jimmy Carter and "idiot" might make one feel smart and superior, but it lowers my opinion of the perpetrator immediately.

No one demeans McCain's status as an American hero (well, not many do), but, how much effort does it take to get captured and put into a prisoner of war camp?

What's funny about calling Jimmy Carter an idiot and all these right wingers saying he was the worst president ever is that, if America had taken his viewpoints on energy seriously 30 years ago, we wouldn't be paying $4/gal for gas right now.

Not sure that Carter compared farming with military service but then again, I didn't listen to every word. Did Carter bring that up or was it just you? I am confused. By the way, I support your right to disagree with Carter and what he said but just wondered why you wandered off your point.

Oh, okay so you weren't sure that was your point; that's okay I frequently fall into that rabbit hole too. I'd suggest stripping down your article to exactly what you think your point might be. I am sure that you are aware that they are some wild articles out there that are diversionary and you don't want to be binned with them, right? I have to admit that I haven't posted an article because it makes you vulnerable to different level of scruting than people like me that just critique articles rather than write them. Nice effort; tighten it up a bit and you may have something kind of convincing. On the rewrite start with:

"Being POW is a badge. It means you are allowed to say anything and support it with the POW badge. You are are unassailable and have license to say or do anything by virtue of being POW. You opinion means more that anyone who served for two of three times he length of time you served but didn't end up as a POW. Your opinion means more that anyone who didn't crash their military planes 4 of 5 time because you were a POW and they weren't. Say or do anything you want; it's more important that any US citizen voice who for reason of gender, disabilities or for orientation sake wasn't given the opportunity to serve."

Yeah, go with that; it's precious. Print your words, post them on a wall and take a look a couple of decades from now.

I do think it's weird that you criticize Carter for farming, when -- as has been pointed out -- he *did* serve time in the military. If the latter weren't true, I could almost understand your point.

With that said: McCain *is* milking his service. Some may think he earned the right to do it, but that doesn't mean he's not milking it.

How is it heroic that he survived a POW camp? Does that mean everyone who survived a POW camp is a hero?

Not taking anything away from surviving in a POW camp, but what other choice do you have? You either survive or you don't.

And, btw, none of that makes you fit to be president.

His refusal to leave early, like it or not that was a heroic action. Never heard me say he was fit to be president, check out my posts.

Roger,

Didn't say you did. Didn't mean for it to sound like you did.

As for his refusal to leave...okay, I'll grant you that.

thanks George

You either survive or you don't.

Not true either. If you give up, you don't survive. The determination to survive has a lot to do with it.

Bottom line, McCain is milking his Vietnam experience, when Katie Couric asked him about why he couldn't remember how many houses he owned his response was, I spent 5 and a half years without a chair or kitchen table,

Yeah, I was willing to give him the benefit of a doubt at first about his "milking" of his POW experience. But after that? Yeah, it's safe to say he's milking it a bit.

Waynester,

But he's not the only one who determined to survive. He's no different in that than any of the others who determined to survive. Most of them had it even worse because they didn't have anyone the North Vietnamese gave a damn about to try to impress.

But, as I said, I will give him that he chose to stay.

He won't release his records. We do know however he was never placed in command of a operational unit. (One with a war time tasking not just training)

McCain has to authorize the release.

Such as...

Starting with the nickname "ACE" and how he got it. How he got returned to "active flight status" at 100%, after his return, even with all the injuries he sustained? How he still managed to get 100% disability pension, upon his retirement, due to all those injuries he sustained, but was healed 100% to return to flight duty? Yet, it is presumed that he would never make it to Admiral, like his father and grandfather, due to poor annual physical reviews? How he got that choice assignment as liaison to Congress?

Based on everything I have been able to find out IMO He was never going to make Admiral based on his military record not his physical status.

Rob Ballew

Carter was also in the military and his comment was that McCain was using his POW status for political purposes. No one is questioning his actions as a POW, but the comment was not only fair it was true. McCain has always claimed he doesn't want to talk about his POW status, but does it all the time. The problem is not that he is using it, but be truthful about what you are doing.

Research would show that McCain has used his POW status in the political process since he first run for office in AZ. Before you throw the military angle, I retired after 20, was in during the Vietnam war and met numerous people who were there and while it was horrible a experience for McCain and everyone else if you are going to use it for political purposes at least own up to it.

First of all thank you for your service I appreciate it. But as I said before he has every right to use his POW status. Hell who does it hurt? Carter (aka One of the worst presidents in history) should try and show a little respect here. Look I understand people are sick of hearing about McCain and his service but there just as many who are sick of hearing Obama and his alleged call for "change". Honestly it is politics and for good or for bad it will be over in a few short months. Sadly, the more some of these Democrats chime in the less I want to see a Democrat in office and I know there are quite a few that feel the same way as me.

Rob, my problem is not that he is using it, but he claims he doesn't want to talk about it. My problem is he his being disingenuous about it. Most people are not tired of hearing about his service, what I am tired of hearing his when asked about why he can't remember how many houses he owns his response is you know for 5 and a half years I didn't even have a chair or a kitchen table, come on answer the question, one has nothing to do with the other. He uses his POW status to duck questions he doesn't want to answer and IMO that is wrong.

Ah well if I had that many houses I'd probably forget too and I am not as old as he is J/K. Actually I see where you are coming from. But as I said until I have done 5 1/2 years in a POW camp I won't criticize him. That is just where I stand.

understand, stay cool

Hell who does it hurt?

It doesn't hurt anyone. But, if he believes his experiences qualify him to be President, it's only fair for people to say they disagree. I don't happen to see the connection. I agree that he's milking his service. It's his right, but it opens him up to being questioned about something he allegedly doesn't want to talk about.

For McCain (or anyone) to deny that he mentions his time as a POW in response to *a lot* of things, is hard to believe.

But, if he believes his experiences qualify him to be President

I don't think that's the point at all. It's not about that experience per se, I think the point is he's had to make very tough life and death decisions, which is in pretty stark contrast to his opponent. And that would still be true even if he had never been captured.

That's fine, but it's easy to argue that his "life and death" decisions point to a man with a taste for war. His experience can be argued good and bad, and the problem isn't with arguing good things about it -- it's in saying that people shouldn't contest those good things with bad things, if they feel strongly about it...

He looked evil straight in the eye, he knows what it looks like. He doesn't point to social ills when asked if evil exists. I like that. It's often said the folks least likely to go to war are the ones who've seen it up close and personal. Try to take some comfort in that if he wins, ok?

I don't think that many people are directly "disrespecting" McCain for often talking about his POW status.

However, it does seem like in some instances, such as using it to excuse the amount of houses he owns, he seems to be using his experiences to try to downgrade any criticism he might get from his policies and general behavior.

"How dare you try to legitimately ask a question that pertains to my attitudes and ideas about the economy?! I spent 6 years in Vietnam!"

It's often said the folks least likely to go to war are the ones who've seen it up close and personal.

And yet that doesn't jibe with McCain's "Bomb Iran" and "Stay in Iraq for 100 years if we have to" rhetoric.

I'll echo the earlier sentiments that being a POW doesn't automatically qualify one to be President, and honestly I'm not sure it should enter into the equation.

Seen any protesters screaming for us to get out of Germany? S. Korea?, Okinawa? No? It'll be the same with Iraq. Your statement about McCain's 100 year comment is a canard. The entire quote gas gotten out, you can stop perpetuating the deception now.

What about the Iran comment? The direct quote is "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran." Though, I don't know if you can call it a quote if he sang it.

It's called humor. (ok not very good humor, but he was, in fact, joking)
And it may already be happening on a small scale see this article. Not sure if it's us or Mossad...

Seen any protesters screaming for us to get out of Germany? S. Korea?, Okinawa?

I did see the Iraqi government push for a withdrawal date for US troops...

How smart does one have to be to get captured?

He was shot down, just like quite a few others. And it's not that he was captured it was how he conducted himself in captivity. You are not that dense, are you? I know you're not that dense.
If the democratically elected Governments in question wanted us out we would have been gone long ago. You can always find nutballs who will protest practically anything. There's a group in St. Paul protesting birdwatching for goodness sake.
At least he didn't gravitate to Marxist professors while in college...
I'm done here.

Calling me "dense" is bad manners, Waynester. Argue facts, stay away from ad hominem attacks. Your arguments will carry more weight.

Whether a country wants us in or out is not the issue. We spend treasure and lives being the policemen for the world and claim it to be in our own interest. The present administration said it abhorred "nation building". Well, what are we doing in Iraq?

You do know that McCain collaborated with the enemy, and that he has expressed shame over that? I recognize him to have great tenacity, and great courage; but, I do think he has other qualities which diminish his ability to be president.